Thank you for your responses. I don’t know how to say it any clearer but my intent was to show that what underpins the whole of modern JW Bible interpretation and consequently their claim to being God’s chosen interpreters, is an extra-biblical doctrine; the one which says that the sole authority for Christian belief is the Bible itself and that it is the inerrant word of God........and logically speaking that doctrine cannot be found in the Bible.
Half banana
JoinedPosts by Half banana
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33
Have you ever thought what the primary teaching of Jehovah’s Witnesses is?
by Half banana init is not “preach the good news” nor is it “believe in jesus and get saved” neither is it “believe in the governing body of jehovah’s witnesses and get saved” although in practice they do teach this.
no, everything they claim depends on a belief in another doctrine which logic decrees cannot be found in the bible.
the leadership of jehovah’s witnesses put absolute faith in a protestant doctrine which is given a latin name, sola scriptura, meaning “by scripture alone”.. good evidence of the governing body believing in the primacy of this doctrine was when being questioned by the australian royal commission, they resorted to the ‘authority’ of scripture to defend their stance on having “two witnesses” when they are investigating child abuse cases.throughout the hearing they paraded their naive trust in the bible as the highest possible authority proudly ignoring the fact that most people regard it as having been superseded by modern scientific evaluations of what is true.. .
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"Each a glimpse and gone for ever"
by compound complex inhere is a cart run away in the road.
lumping along with a man and load.
and here is a mill and there is a river:.
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Half banana
What an engaging rythm RLS uses?
"Each a glimpse then gone forever"
Like life itself CC?
As William Blake wrote in his poem Eternity:
He who binds to himself a joy
Does the winged life destroy;
But he who kisses the joy as it flies
Lives in eternity's sun rise. .............
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gb, PLEASE, PLEASE UP THE ORGANIZATIONAL HARSHNESS IN 2018
by steve2 insometimes i have expressed a longing for jw organization to tone down its rhetoric and become, well, nicer and more loving.
i have not been alone in my hope.
some posters have even said that if a wave of kindness washed over jw organization and, say, the shunning doctrine was modified (e.g., left up to the individual's conscience without fear of retribution from elders), they'd go back.
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Half banana
I just thought, when JW holy men notice that the membership is in decline they justify it by saying in their holy language that God is "sifting" his organisation.
May it please God to use the coarse grade of sieve preferably just use the frame without a mesh so that the whole lot go through.....
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gb, PLEASE, PLEASE UP THE ORGANIZATIONAL HARSHNESS IN 2018
by steve2 insometimes i have expressed a longing for jw organization to tone down its rhetoric and become, well, nicer and more loving.
i have not been alone in my hope.
some posters have even said that if a wave of kindness washed over jw organization and, say, the shunning doctrine was modified (e.g., left up to the individual's conscience without fear of retribution from elders), they'd go back.
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Half banana
If this brainless cult didn't hurt people then as ex-JWs we wouldn't be concerned.
As doomsday cults age they have to turn the screws to keep the tension of threats and fear on an increasingly higher setting to scare members into staying.
Another site mentions that from a survey sample a small proportion of JWs would be prepared to drink a potion if the GB asked them..........Truly there is a limit to anyone's tolerance of religious behavior and this would be a demand too far. It's just as well that we here are better informed than the flock as a safeguard for them.
There is the chance that the cult demands are now too high already for comfort except for the most deluded but the evidence on this site is that the more thoughtful JWs are indeed seeing through the panda propaganda and escaping the cult.
We cannot organize to increase the burden of demands on JWs but some of us, the 'awake' part of the JW membership, can keep talking to each other and enlarge their awakened circles in each KH until a tipping point is reached.
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Have you ever thought what the primary teaching of Jehovah’s Witnesses is?
by Half banana init is not “preach the good news” nor is it “believe in jesus and get saved” neither is it “believe in the governing body of jehovah’s witnesses and get saved” although in practice they do teach this.
no, everything they claim depends on a belief in another doctrine which logic decrees cannot be found in the bible.
the leadership of jehovah’s witnesses put absolute faith in a protestant doctrine which is given a latin name, sola scriptura, meaning “by scripture alone”.. good evidence of the governing body believing in the primacy of this doctrine was when being questioned by the australian royal commission, they resorted to the ‘authority’ of scripture to defend their stance on having “two witnesses” when they are investigating child abuse cases.throughout the hearing they paraded their naive trust in the bible as the highest possible authority proudly ignoring the fact that most people regard it as having been superseded by modern scientific evaluations of what is true.. .
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Half banana
It is not “Preach the good news” nor is it “Believe in Jesus and get saved” neither is it “Believe in the governing body of Jehovah’s Witnesses and get saved” although in practice they do teach this. No, everything they claim depends on a belief in another doctrine which logic decrees cannot be found in the Bible.
The leadership of Jehovah’s Witnesses put absolute faith in a Protestant doctrine which is given a Latin name, Sola scriptura, meaning “by scripture alone”.
Good evidence of the governing body believing in the primacy of this doctrine was when being questioned by the Australian Royal Commission, they resorted to the ‘authority’ of scripture to defend their stance on having “two witnesses” when they are investigating child abuse cases.Throughout the hearing they paraded their naive trust in the Bible as the highest possible authority proudly ignoring the fact that most people regard it as having been superseded by modern scientific evaluations of what is true.
Sola scriptura came into existence in Europe at the Protestant Reformation in the sixteenth century as an antidote to the monopoly of Papal influence and its claim to determine Christian teaching by its own authority, the Roman Catholic Magisterium.
So is the belief in the Bible as the sole arbiter of truth a sensible idea?
One dramatic consequence of the belief in Sola Scriptura was the proliferation of Christian sects who were freed from the stranglehold which the Papacy had wielded for twelve centuries. Where there was one all embracing church before the Reformation, afterwards at least 20,000 Christian denominations and sects have ensued.
This informs a lot about the nature of enforcing religious orthodoxy versus the freedom to interpret the scriptures according to personal taste. As all controlling religions know, especially the RC church and Jehovah’s Witnesses, that “heresy” is the greatest threat to maintaining order, and that freedom of belief leads to splintering and disintegration.
The Reformation was propelled by trying to right the abuses and corruption in the Roman Church, revealing at the same time that such practices are a corollary of unregulated religious authority. However the fracturing of Protestant belief into myriads of sects, speaks about something else namely the impossibility of finding a coherent and absolute set of doctrines “from scripture alone” which could stand as a universal “truth”. No coherent, inerrant “truth” resulted from the Reformation, nothing which would shift monolithic Catholicism from its self built pedestal of “divine appointment”.
A lesson learned from this would be that one set of divine and absolute doctrinal beliefs to which we should be drawn is an idealistic impossibility, the success of a religion is about perceived authority and power not doctrine.
Surely though the JW Bible says “All scripture is inspired of God, beneficial etc”. Doesn’t that mean the Bible is inspired? If it did mean the Bible is inspired it would logically be disqualified because it is circular reasoning; using the authority of the original statement to justify itself.
By looking at the Greek text and other translations, the writer of Second Letter to Timothy here is saying that all “inspired writings” are beneficial, a reasonable thought if you are promoting a religious approach to life. He cannot be saying the Bible is inspired because it was not compiled until the fourth century CE. Paul used an expression which referred to a category of writing; "divinely inspired writings", which at the time would mean all of the popular literature encouraging faith in God such as found in the Shepherd of Hermas, and other hand written documents of a similar vein then in circulation. Interestingly Paul could not focus on Jesus or the so called gospels of Jesus because they were yet to be written.
In other words the most important belief of JWs, that the Bible is the word of God, is itself NOT found in the Bible. It is impossible to determine this doctrine on the authority of the Bible.
Belief that the Bible is the sole and inerrant word of God was a Protestant reaction to the corrupt Papacy and is unsupported by evidence. Instead the Bible is filled with gross factual errors and failures of logic. It unreflectively describes mythical and magical events as if they are true, it borrows much core narrative from astrology and it imitates and copies pagan writings of antiquity. It suffers from later literary insertions, it has been selectively edited, and revised according to partisan dogma.
Is it from God? Does it sound like it is from God? The Bible writers and editors evince all human failings not the least being to promote religious, racial, patriarchal and homophobic bigotry. Really would God do this?
The JW leadership cling to Sola scriptura above all other things because they have nothing to else to offer mankind except their pathetic reliance on this Protestant superstition.
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The Seven Trumpets
by Jehovah lol inis it still watchtower dogma that the seven trumpets of revelation refer to seven conventions in the 1920s?
would many jws these days even be aware of this?
i find it so amusing that seven little conventions in the distant past, almost a century ago, could be equated with such an iconic biblical passage.
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Half banana
It's a wonder that the seven narcissistic bug eyed loons running the JW org haven't spotted that they are seven in number and therefore the seven trumpets must refer to them.
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Whole families leaving the Org has increased
by pomo6780 ini have noticed in the uk a few families i used to know while in the borg have exited together.
some include former elders and ministerial servants.
i observed on social media pages that the kids have 'worldly' boyfriends and girlfriends and they look so much happier than they did in the org.
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Half banana
I can imagine why this might be....... Mum days to dad "I wouldn't shun you or the kids if you or they left." Dad says,"No, nor would I", then the children agree nor would they shun any family member. So dad says:
"Then what are we all doing staying in this stupid religion!!"
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Unbelievable KMS example
by Saltheart Foamfollower ini've been to the kingdom ministry school (for elders) recently and can report that it is mostly the usual mix of cliches and platitudes.
several letters where basically just read through one line at a time.
one point early on though almost made me laugh out loud.
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Half banana
Yes a truly thoughtless example, I think the JW org have given up trying to convince people anymore they seem no longer to care at all!
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Can someone tell me why Joan's ark and the flood not true and impossible?
by Gokumonkey inhey everyone.
i have a question and i hope i'm not confusing this with something else i heard.
while watching ex jw videos on youtube many of them talk about how noah's ark and the flood didn't happen and it's impossible.
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Half banana
Gokumonkey, here's a useful tip for coping with life: get to know the difference when information is true-- and when it is that you are reading literature (fairy tales).
Hint: the Bible's Flood story is a universal tale of divinely instigated mass murder by drowning and survival of a chosen few and is found in the earliest known literature or "story book", The Epic of Gilgamesh from Mesopotamia about 2100 bce.
For very many reasons Noah's Flood could not possibly have happened and not the least of these reasons is that archaeologists and earth scientists have clear records of Earth events and climate change in the last fifty thousand years and there is no trace of any global catastrophe having taken place and why would there be since Noah's flood is only a Hebrew take on an older story.
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Why "Most high"?
by Doug Mason inif there were only one god, why do we encounter the expression, "most high god"?.
is this not indicative of polytheism, and of levels (or degrees) of god-ness?.
doug .
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Half banana
@Simon i.e.lesser gods, ordinary gods, most high gods and supreme gods..............
@Punky, have you noted the baseless and illogical statements used in your Creation book quote, it is the style of reasoning on which this religion is built:
"The face of the deep, of course, would be toward the Pleiades, which are claimed to be the habitation of Jehovah." (Creation; 1927; 2,175,000 ed.; p. 94)
1 the face of the deep faces all the stars visible from the Earth!
2 there is no evidence for an almighty god living anywhere let alone in the Pleiades.
So surely Doug the mention of grades of gods reflects the early Bronze Age view and accounts for the struggle the Hebrew text is famous for in trying to convince the rabble the "new light" (probably from Egypt) that now there is only One Most high god.